How Top Salespeople Become Great Business Leaders

Kristian Lunardi and Damien Theisz of Nelson Alexander Commercial have been clients of CRE Success for over a year now…in fact, they were the very first (brave!) people to join our signature business coaching program for commercial real estate leaders who want to develop their people and grow their business.

We’re now into our second year of working together, so I’ve invited Damien and Kristian onto the podcast this week to share how they complement each other’s strengths and work to bring out the best in one another.

We also talk about the unique needs of commercial real estate (compared with residential, which runs through Kristian’s blood) and the knowledge gap that exists when great salespeople become business owners.

This includes how to take the systems and processes that made them top listers and sellers as agents, and then leveraging those strengths to also transform the way they operate their entire business.

If you want to uncover the secrets to a winning partnership, you’ll enjoy episode 127 of CRE Success: The Podcast.

Episode transcript:

One of my favorite types of sales is a 2 for 1 sale, where you pay for one and then you get one more for free.

In Korea where I used to live, they used to call it 1 plus 1, rather than 2 for 1.

Well today, you're going to get that because I've got two special guests to introduce you to on today's show.

Hello, and welcome to Episode 127 of CRE Success: The Podcast.

My name's Darren Krakowiak. I help commercial real estate leaders to develop their people and to grow their business. 

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If you've been listening to us on the podcast for a while, it's also there available for you to watch if you would like to.

Well, today I am talking to two people, Damien Theisz and Kristian Lunardi of Nelson Alexander Commercial.

They're a couple of great guys and amazing double-act.

And they were actually the first two people that signed up to the CRE Success Business and Leadership Coaching Programs.

So, I thought, what a great way to introduce you to what it's like for clients inside the program by speaking to the people who went through it first.

Let's hear from them now.

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Darren Krakowiak 

Kristian Lunardi and Damien Theisz, welcome to CRE Success: The Podcast.

Damien Theisz 

Thank you, Darren. Good to be here.

Darren Krakowiak 

Well, gentlemen, I would like to have you here, which is a little bit unusual for me. So, I'll try and do a tag team with you. But I'm pleased that I do get to for the price of one. I'm going to start with Damien. Damien, I want to hear the story of how you and Kristian actually became business partners?

Damien Theisz 

So, I got introduced to James Keenan and Arch Staver, probably seven years ago. About this time, seven years ago, I joined the business. So, I was in the business for a couple of year and looking to grow the business. And word on the grapevine was that Kristian was potentially interested in moving out of residential, who's working at the Northcote office and moving into commercial. So, we had to catch up the pub around the corner. Kristian and I got along well and the rest of history. Kristian's dad at the time was Chairman. So, I thought apple doesn't fall far from the tree. That'd be a good get. So yeah, that's how it came about.

Damien Theisz 

Not really. So, family members bought and sold over the years. But yeah, I'm probably the only one in real estate as such. I've got two brothers in building construction. But yeah, I'm the only one in the family in real estate.

Darren Krakowiak 

So obviously some real estate in Kristian's blood and in yours, Damien.

Darren Krakowiak 

Excellent. Well, I guess running a business with an equal partner is obviously different from going in alone. So, Kristian, I want to hear from you, how is it that you and Damien bring out the best in each other?

Kristian Lunardi 

I think playing to each other's strengths is key not trying to be something you're not having to find roles that you're strong in. Of course, working on your weaknesses, but determining what each other are strong at our skills or attributes, not just with the business, the skill sets, but also the people management and then allowing each other to fulfill those roles, without trying to step on each other's toes. There's no ego between our relationship. There's no one person trying to control the business ahead of the other, or to try and steal the limelight, which I think you might see in sales quite a bit. And that really works for us where in Damien might have one particular skill set that he's very good at that perhaps I'm weak at. I don't try to do that. I simply allowed Damien to do that. And then leverage of that in situations to get a better outcome than perhaps if I was handling.

Darren Krakowiak 

So, no ego but I have noticed some good-natured ribbing from time to time.

Kristian Lunardi 

Oh yeah, we definitely rip into each other all the time. You know, you're spending most of your week, your most of your year, with your workplace and your business partners. If you can't have a joke and have a good time, you know what's the point.

Darren Krakowiak 

Well, it's been a few years that you've been in partnership now. So, Damien, I'm going to ask you this one: What sort of things do you think that people should consider, before getting into a partnership with someone else in a commercial real estate business or in any business for that matter?

Damien Theisz 

Yeah, probably the biggest thing that I've learned is that you'll have to compromise, and you know, get your head around that. Like any relationship, you've got to work on it. And also, you don't always have to win. So, what Kristian touched on there, we do have different personalities, we do have different skill sets, different traits, different things we're good at, and different things we're not so good at. So, I think one of the biggest things for me was certainly letting go of some things. And that's been good. And learning from Kristian, the areas that he's good at, let him flourish in those areas, and certainly picking up some of those skill sets that he's good at. And yeah, allowing him to flourish, really. But that helps if you get along, and we get along, and we are different. So, I think that's good as well. It's no good to having someone who's the same as you. Otherwise, you might as well just run a business by yourself. So, I think it's really good that we are different, we bring different things to the table. That yeah, it helps if you get along which we do.

Darren Krakowiak 

Anything to add to that Kristian?

Kristian Lunardi 

Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly with Damien. I think, probably just to reiterate what he said, particularly about this. There's no point having a clone of yourself. As a business partner, the whole idea of growing a business is to innovate, and to learn, and come to continue to learn. And because we know we're similar in our vision and our goals, but were very different in some attributes of what we might consider the best decision for the business. And having someone in some cases as a polar opposite can actually broaden your thinking as to what the best decision may be. And that goes from all attributes, such as business decisions around basics as finances, or management decisions around personnel, or even strategic decisions around the next listing or the next client to take on. So having someone providing that opposite opinion, I think is more valuable than having someone who just agrees, or someone who are completely aligned on every decision.

Darren Krakowiak 

Excellent. I'm going to stick with you on this one Kristian, you're both great listers and sellers of commercial real estate. We've talked a little bit about some of the complementary attributes that you both have. What would you identify as one attribute that Damien has that you believe makes him an excellent agent in commercial real estate?

Kristian Lunardi 

Well, Damien has been managing commercial businesses for 20 years. That's a time in the industry that can't be learned overnight. And in that time in the industries, he's developed skill sets, you know, business acumen greater than me. I'm just under a decade, that he brings to the table that I simply don't have. I haven't seen as many markets’ cycles. I haven't seen as many ebbs and flows in business outside of real estate, macroeconomic, microeconomic conditions. There's that in terms of the knowledge base that he has, but also the skill set in management of the business over a period of time. Damien manages teams of hundreds of people, and he's managed teams of small people. So that's one thing that I simply just don't have the experience in that Damien does. And I try to leverage off that where I can.

Darren Krakowiak 

And Damien, same question to you about Kristian. What's one attribute that he has that you believe makes him effective at listing and selling commercial real estate?

Damien Theisz 

Kristian can talk underwater with a mouthful of marbles. So, he has a great ability to connect with people. And I think his greatest attribute is his network. He's got a massive network of buyers, of vendors, of developers. And yeah, he networks really well. He builds rapport really well. And he knows everyone. So, I think that's his greatest attribute and a strength that really helps us as a business grow.

Darren Krakowiak 

Okay, so looking beyond the two of you, as you're looking to build your team and you're looking for attributes within new people to bring into the business, what sort of people are you looking for and what are you looking for within them when you're looking to grow and hire new people? I'll ask this one to Kristian.

Kristian Lunardi 

I think two things above all. The first is that they align with our values, not just our values as people with our values for where we want the culture, the direction of the business, the environment. And the second is effort. You know, you can learn a marketplace, you can upskill over a period of time. But unless you have that effort and that desire to do the work, then it's not going to work. So those two things, I think, are probably the most important in my eyes. The third, I guess, would be someone who, as a person fits in to our team and our culture. You know, in a commission-based environment, there can be conflict internally at times at any agency. I feel like Nelson Alexander and our office, we deal with that in a very specific way, and a very measured way. And that reduces conflict within our office, it's an environment we're proud of, it's one we'd like to keep. So, someone that will fit in with that will be very important with us.

Darren Krakowiak 

One of the reasons why I've asked you here today, apart from hearing about what it's like to work with each other, is to get an understanding of what it's been like for the two of you to work with me at CRE Success. So, the first question I'd like to ask is, what is the reason why you actually got started with the program that we've been working on now for over a year? And I'm going to start with Damien on this one.

Damien Theisz 

Because Kristian told me we had to. No, that's a joke. So, Kristian first suggested it to me. And yeah, I thought it was a great idea. So, I think you can become very insular. And if all you hear is my point of view, Kristian’s point of view, you know, other people in our offices point of view, it does become a bit insular. The same within Nelson Alexander, we've got 16 offices. So, you know the Nelson Alexander way. So, when Kristian suggested to me, I was on board to get some outside, training, coaching, views, help. So yeah, that's how it came about for us.

Darren Krakowiak 

Kristian was driving and a little bit more. And I also had some contact with some people in your headquarters. Kristian, anything to add to that as to why you were willing to get on board with us from the start?

Kristian Lunardi 

Yeah, the real reason we were looking to have some external coaching or some external input, well, the main reason in my eyes is that we were growing and are growing at such a rapid rate. And it's a great and lucky position to be in. But sometimes, it can feel a bit daunting, where it almost feels uncontrolled in some way. And just to reiterate what Damien said, you have all this support around you, from your internal from other offices, from head office. But I felt that because Nelson Alexander brain, primarily 15, or 16 residential offices and one commercial office, we needed to sort of step in a direction, where we were getting specific commercial, external advice that wasn't currently offered. And in addition to that, you know, have some direction outside of what we might have thought is the best direction. You know, and what we touched on earlier about having the same voices around you, and having the external voice to provide an idea that you perhaps had never even considered. That was probably the main reasons in my eyes and impacts I think, I'd seen you on LinkedIn, Darren, or I'd listened to some of your podcasts and thought maybe this bloke knows what he's talking about.

Darren Krakowiak 

Is the program what you expected. I'll ask question for Kristian first?

Kristian Lunardi 

Yeah, it is. When I was a residential agent, many years ago, there was a huge amount of coaching programs and information available to the marketplace. And it was tailored to residential. So, I had a fair understanding of the sales side of coaching, which was, you know, listing sell, but I already had all of that information. I was familiar with it. What I was interested in was the gap that was there, which was the business coaching, which is what you provide. Which was, the systems, the processes, around how we can apply what we do day to day in sales and leasing to our business, so that it becomes more automated, more structured, in how we deal with our staff, not just our sales teams, but Property Management Administrative. It was probably more than what we expected in terms of the content. There was definitely more depth in what was provided, which was really good and really pleasing. But yeah, that's about it.

Darren Krakowiak 

You guys are actually the first clients that I had on board with the program. So, when we were initially talking, I hadn't completely built out the program yet. So probably I wasn't able to communicate everything that was in it because it wasn't actually built. So, I really appreciate the fact that you guys were the first and obviously we've brought on more clients, and it's been great working with you. Damien, I want to ask you this one. What's been some of the value to you and also to the business from working together?

Damien Theisz 

I think the biggest thing is new ideas and a different perspective. So, you know, we've both touched on it previously, but having someone from outside come in, and have a look at our business and discuss issues in the commercial real estate business has gone through a lot over the last couple of years with. You know, lock downs, and COVID rent relief and staffing issues, and all those things plus more like a lot of businesses had. So, it's been really good to have a structure where we meet with you regularly, and its locked in. And you have to step outside the business, because a day can turn into a week, can turn into a month, can turn into a year very quickly. Whereas if you step outside the business and have a helicopter view and take the time to assess where you're going. I think that's been really good from my point of view, and having that outside perspective and someone else to throw some ideas at us and offer up some suggestions to us in a different way of looking at.

Darren Krakowiak 

Yeah, I think one of the things that's been helpful to the process is the commitment of you both to it. And for example, we've done our monthly meetings every month. You've shown up, I think we rescheduled a couple of times, but we've always done it every month. And you guys just showed up with the great intention to learn and contribute and to get the most out of it, which has been really good. Kristian any other value to the business that you can add to Damien's answer?

Kristian Lunardi 

I think, yeah. Similar to what Damien said with the outside point of view, I mean, we could go into immense detail, but I wouldn't rob that from your future clients. About all the tasks, the metrics that were put in place, the action items, short, medium, and long term, that are always sitting, I guess, in the back of your mind, but until they're structured and put in front of you with an actionable plan. They're not doing anything that they're effectively just sitting there as an idea or as a concept or a theory. And having that presented in a logical way to see how that would flow over short, medium and long term. For me, puts me at ease whenever sometimes things do go wrong on any given day, because you have that structured plan in place. You have that vision for how it's going to happen as a definable, executable plan. So, the value to the business is obviously in its execution, and what occurs when we implement these plans. But also, the value to me as a business owner of have a comfort level or that we have something in place, that we're actually now we're not treading water or chasing our tail, which you can sometimes feel like you are in real estate with the volume of work being you know, incredibly intense for a short period of time and then slow for a short period of time. Those ebbs and flows at any given small window might seem intense, but over a long period of time, it's all part of a greater plan.

Darren Krakowiak 

So, Kristian, if I was to ask you to give me one word to describe the process that we have worked through together, what word comes to mind?

Kristian Lunardi 

'Easy' doesn't sound right, but it does come to mind. Because they 'easy' in the sense that the information is given to you in a logical way, through the programs and the modules, it all progresses. So, it's not a big data dump. It's not overwhelming. It's step by step. And it progresses from one module to another where if you perhaps don't complete everything in a module, it's not the end of the world because they do run parallel to end of the world rather. They do run parallel to each other and you can always go back and they're always on go. And so, I think it's easy, which in a nice way, not 'easy' in the sense that the work is easy. It's 'easy' to understand, 'easy' to implement, 'easy' to work with you. 

Darren Krakowiak 

Thank you for that. Damien, while Kristian was looking for the word do you have one that sprang into your mind?

Damien Theisz 

I had 'in depth', not sure whether one word or two word I think it might be one word, but 'in depth'. So, it has been very structured and there has been extensive work to go through and we've done some preliminary work as well. And I think that's important. So, I'd say 'in depth', you know, we've really had dug deep down into the business and opened it up and had a look at what works, what doesn't work, what we can improve. So, I think the program has been 'in depth' and it's been, it's been challenging, and it's been good.

Darren Krakowiak 

So, Damien, if someone's thinking about joining a program or doing something like this, what would be your advice to them?

Damien Theisz 

Just do it. And that was one of the things when Kristian came to me and pitched it to me. And I said, "Yeah, well, absolutely." Continue to do the same thing, you'll continue to get the same results. So, you know, be open, but you've got to be prepared to put in some effort yourself, you know, just to do some pre work, to do some post work to engage to open up your mind. So yeah, I'd absolutely recommend them to do it. But you've got to come committed and be prepared to do some work yourself.

Darren Krakowiak 

I'm smiling, because I remember one session we had where I asked to do some pre-work and you walked in with, I think it was like a book of pre-work of numbers and stuff for us. So, you definitely did the work. So, I appreciate it.

Damien Theisz 

One of the things I say is, and I got this from a footy coach many years ago is the six P's (Proper Planning and Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance). I don't like going into a meeting or you know, a listing presentation or anything like that, underprepared. So, I prefer to be prepared. So yeah, sorry about the book. 

Darren Krakowiak 

I appreciate it. Kristian, I got to go on this one. Any final thoughts or anything else that you think would be helpful to people to think about if they're considering investing in themselves or in this in their business?

Kristian Lunardi 

There's no reason why you shouldn't invest in your business as an ongoing theme or an ongoing journey over life or over business. I think Damien said something to me, I think we're in one of the lock downs, rent relief, and there was not a lot of volume in leasing or sales. And we were sort of sitting here, scratching our head thinking what's going to happen next week, what's going to happen next month. And he said, "You know, the one of the only things you can guarantee in business is there's always going to be change, it's always going to be evolving, it's never going to be the same thing. If it was the same thing, everyone would do it." And part of that evolution, as a business as a person involves some form of coaching, or some form of ups-killing, and educating. You know, some of our clients that are very successful commercial investors, or developers, even at 50, 60, 70 years old. They're always researching, they're always looking to up-skill, so they don't get left behind. And I think, the same methodology applies to us as people and us as business owners. And I think that would apply to anyone in any business, but more specifically, commercial real estate, given you know, how it is a rapidly fast changing business.

Darren Krakowiak 

Well, Kristian, Damien, I really appreciate both of you being open to sharing. And thank you for coming on the show today. 

Kristian Lunardi 

Thanks.

Damien Theisz 

Thanks Darren.

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An amazing double-act, Kristian and Damien, thanks so much for being on the show.

And just as we were wrapping up the interview, one thing that we were speaking about was, as we work together over the months, we started to really get into the groove because you start to get to know each other more, and we just started to get more comfortable.

So that's another thing that I would mention as well.

The benefit of this program is the longer that you stay at it, the better it gets, because the more I guess, comfortable that clients become, and the more familiar that I get with the way that my clients like to work and the deeper the understanding becomes of their business and of their priorities.

If you would like to know more about our program for commercial real estate leaders who are looking to develop their people and grow their business, you can go to cresuccess.co/leadership, and fill out that form that is on that page.

What will happen then is that I'll get a little notification telling me that this is somebody who is interested, and who I should have a conversation with.

We'll have a quick chat where I'll understand a bit more about your business.

I'm happy to share during that chat some of the ways that I'm helping my clients grow their business in the current environment.

And if we decide that you and I are a good match, we can then have a further conversation about what working together looks like. cresuccess.co/leadership is the place to go.

As always, thank you so much for listening. I will speak to you soon.