Revamped marketing channels for reaching commercial property owners.

Despite the decline of legacy media around the world, radio is still going strong in Australia.

Fully 79% of Australians listened to the radio last week…and it’s an even higher proportion of people aged over 40 years.

This makes it a viable medium for reaching commercial property owners.

One of my clients, Darren Lucchese, is right on this.

I just had him on the podcast, and in the episode, Darren reveals how he’s incorporating radio ads into the marketing mix at Tewksbury Commercial.

One insight from our conversation was the importance of diversifying your marketing channels.

Combining broadcast media with digital marketing can significantly enhance your brand’s reach.

If you’re looking to broaden your marketing approach, Darren’s insights offer valuable lessons.

Check out episode 181 of Commercial Real Estate Leadership to see how you can apply these strategies in your business.

Episode transcript:

So, there's an old song from the 80s called 'Video Killed the Radio Star'.

And I think if we take the next logical extension of it, it might be that 'Netflix or Streaming Killed the Video Star'.

And if we wanted to talk about what maybe has happened to radio, it could be that podcasts have killed the Radio Star, or maybe the iPod when it first came out.

But actually, radio is still going strong. Here in Australia, more people listen to radio than ever before.

And radio is also another channel that you can use to reach potential clients and also to communicate with your existing clients.

It's a strategy that our guest today has employed with some success.

He's not abandoning digital media and digital marketing strategies, but he's also leveraging the channel of radio.

So, we're going to hear from our guest today about how he is doing that to reach more potential clients in his business.

Hello there! Welcome to Commercial Real Estate Leadership. So happy to have your company today. My name is Darren Krakowiak. This is episode 181.

We are the place for commercial real estate leaders who want to make their business bigger. Thank you so much for joining us today.

We've got a fantastic guest to introduce you too very soon. It is Darren Lucchese, who is the managing director of Tewksbury Commercial, which is located in Brisbane in Australia.

And we'll be getting to Darren in just a moment. But I first wanted to set up today's interview by, I guess, explaining a little bit of what I'm doing in this series of episodes where we are speaking to a few of our clients.

Because this is something that you could also do. Video testimonials are a very powerful medium, I guess, to get across to your prospective clients about the value that your existing clients get from working with you.

And if you want a framework of how you can structure these conversations when you are recording testimonials, well, you can listen to our past couple of episodes.

The next couple of episodes, I've got some more clients lined up to speak to. And we also did a whole series of these episodes last year where we talked to a number of clients.

Episode 125, 127, 129, 131, 133, 135, 148, just to get the power of some of your clients speaking to your prospective clients about what was going on with them before they started working with you, the benefit to them from having worked with you and the advice that they might have for people who are thinking of working with you if it works for what I'm doing here, it can certainly work for you.

And another thing, I guess, I wanted to talk about in terms of something that comes up in my conversation with Darren today is that he talks about the fact that he had been listening to the podcast for a while and just sort of what was going on in his mind before he actually started to decide to pick up the phone and start working with me.

And that was relevant. Because just last month, I started working with a new client, who had been listening to the podcast for many years.

And again, I initiated a conversation with this particular client. And that then led that person to saying, "Hey, I've actually been listening to the podcast for a while. And you know, this might be a good time for us to have that conversation. I've been meaning to call you but I haven't."

So, if that's you, if you've been listening to the podcast for a while, or maybe you haven't been listening for a while, but what we're talking about the way that we're helping clients, maybe you can see yourself in one of the clients that we're speaking to.

Or, you can see your desired future self in some of the clients that we're speaking to in these episodes.

I want to invite you to take that next step because I've been noticing that there are people who are listening to the podcast, but they're not taking that next step.

And I guess, I haven't been super aggressive in terms of like cluttering up the podcast with 'call now', 'email now', 'do this', 'do that'.

I'll probably put maybe one call to action in each episode. But I guess, I wanted to really highlight before I get into this conversation with Darren, I'd love to hear from you.

I'd love to have a chat about what's going on in your business. And to give you some ideas about the way that we're helping our other clients grow their business.

And if we have that conversation and you decide it's not a good fit, well, at least you're walking away with a few ideas of how it is that you could perhaps take those steps on your own.

And if you decide you want some help with that, well then, we can talk about how that works as well.

But it does require you to take that first step. The way to do that is to let's say, DM me on LinkedIn.

Look me up on LinkedIn. I've got an open profile, which means if you just send me a message with the word 'Grow', I will know exactly what that means, and then I will get back to you.

If you want to know more about how it is that we can help you or just to have a confidential obligation, free conversation about what's going on in your business, and you know, I'm happy to give you a couple of ways that perhaps you can start to get your business growing faster.

Now, the final thing I want to mention in this episode before I get into the Interview with Darren, which I was really chuffed when he mentioned was that as a client who had been working with me for 12 months, and he just recently decided to hit the button and continue working with me.

And while video testimonials are a great endorsement, I think another fantastic endorsement is a client who chooses to work with you again.

So, I'm really grateful for Darren, one, for being a continuing client, but also mentioning that.

And I guess the thing for you is also to have a think about who are the clients who continue to want to work with you?

Because they can be fantastic evangelists for you and they can help you grow your business.

And I think they also show you that what you're doing is working and you may even want to ask them, what is it that you enjoy about working with me?

How is it that you're getting value from this relationship?

And how can you then translate that to ensure that you're delivering it to other clients, but also use the words that the client is telling you about why they're working with you, and continuing to work with you in your future marketing to attract more of those types of clients?

All right, so I just wanted to set up today's interview with a little bit of meta content about what it is that they're doing and how it is that you can do it as well.

With that being said, let's get into our interview today with Darren.

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Darren Krakowiak
Darren Lucchese, Managing Director of Tewksbury Commercial, welcome to Commercial Real Estate Leadership.

Darren Lucchese
Thank you, Darren. Thanks for having me.

Darren Krakowiak
Mate, really great to have another Darren on the show. And you're working with another Darren in commercial real estate, of course. I want to talk to you today about three main things, a little bit about your journey in commercial real estate and how you've come to be the owner of your own business. Also about, how you're marketing your business in some relatively innovative ways compared with some of my other clients. And then I'd love to just hear from you about your experience of working with CRE Success. Does that sound okay?

Darren Lucchese
Yep. Perfect.

Darren Krakowiak
All right, awesome. So, let's talk about your pathway into commercial real estate. How did you find yourself working in this industry?

Darren Lucchese
Yes, I was in IT sales for a few years. And I was just getting a bit space jaded of what I was doing. And a good mate of mine, his sister was actually working for one of the big commercial real estate companies. And just having dinner at their house one night, she said, "I think, you guys would be well suited to commercial real estate, you should look into it." And so, I did. I started looking into it. I went and got my commercial real estate license. Went for a few job interviews and got a job with Tewksbury Commercial.

Darren Krakowiak
So, same company the whole way through.

Darren Lucchese
Same company the whole way through, since 2007.

Darren Krakowiak
And why commercial and not residential?

Darren Lucchese
Just because it's more of a business transaction, you're dealing with professionals. So, I just thought that would be, you know, I wasn't too keen on doing, spending all those Saturdays, doing open homes. That wasn't the kind of thing I wanted to get into. So, commercial seem to be the more attractive pathway.

Darren Krakowiak
Okay, so I guess, with IT sales, you're already doing sort of B2B stuff as well, right?

Darren Lucchese
Yeah, a lot of cold calling, or canvassing. The company that I was with had really good training on cold calling and scripts. And so, I was actually a really good, I suppose, you know, step learning to get into the commercial end of the cold calling. So it was, you know, I didn't have any fear to pick up a phone and make a phone call.

Darren Krakowiak
That definitely helps in this industry. So, what do you love most about commercial real estate? What makes you well suited to it?

Darren Lucchese
We did commit, you know, your office leases, retail leases. So, you're dealing with a huge range of different people and everyone's got a different story. It's interesting, it's not the same, repetitive, you're not just selling a single product. And also, putting the deal together, I think there's a lot of people that's in an industry that I can't put a deal together. You know, you're trying to meet the clients who owns the property, the tenants need. So, it's that putting the deal, it's the right marketing campaign. I enjoy that as well. And I think, one thing I'm quite good at is being able to, you know, which a lot of people can't do is see how an office space or a retail space can suit a certain client's needs. I'm pretty good with, you know, I can draw it up and tell a tenant, ‘Look, this is how you can fit it out.' So, I'm quite good at that. You know, I've had a few fit-out companies say, "Oh, you should come and work for us. You're pretty good at this." So, yeah, I just like that whole different variety of the industry, you know, and it's also being in sales. You, obviously you're the thrill of doing the big deals as well. Everyone likes that. So, I still enjoy that as well.

Darren Krakowiak
So, when did you decide that you wanted to become a business owner?

Darren Lucchese
Look, I had been here for a while. That was, I don't know, I sort of said to Peter who started the business that I wanted to have equity in the business. And so that was a conversation that we had a few times. And then during COVID, obviously, you know, something we'd never experienced before. We only had a small property management rent role because it was something, we were just sales and leasing. And we had some clients who really wanted us to manage properties. We took them on. But during COVID, I think, you know, Peter realized, "Hey, if we had a decent, you know, a good property management role, it didn't matter if the sales and leasing weren't doing well, that we still have this income coming in." So, I put up my hand to take that on and expand it. And we were going to set up a separate company and both have equity in it for this property management. And then Peter just said, "Look, I just think it's easier if I just sell you the whole property, the whole business." And I was like, "okay, fair enough." And that's how it happened.

Darren Krakowiak
So, have you owned any businesses before, or this is your first foray into?

Darren Lucchese
Yeah, first one.

Darren Krakowiak
And the business that you own, it's quite dominant in the Toowong commercial market. Now, Toowong, is about 5 kilometers from out of Brisbane City.

Darren Lucchese
Yeah about 5 or 4 and a half kilometers.

Darren Krakowiak
And your business is quite different from a lot of my clients in that you do manage a lot of bigger buildings.

Darren Lucchese
Yeah, in this area, you know, we probably, I thought in Toowong, I think we'd be close to managing, you know, almost half the buildings in this area. So yeah, and that's how Peter started. He was with the bigger agencies and he just got, I suppose, a bit enjoyed working with them. And saw looked out this way, and saw that there was lots of commercial property, but no agent was servicing the area. And so, that's why he said, "hang on, I'll just live in the area." And he just started pulling all the owners and that's how the business grew. So, when I come on, they mainly only did sales, there was no leasing, there's a few leases. And so, I built up a leasing side of the business from almost nothing to what it is today.

Darren Krakowiak
And I guess, being primarily in leasing before, it's quite easy for you to make that step across to property managers as well, because you really know the owners, you know, the buildings really well.

Darren Lucchese
Yup?

Darren Krakowiak
How do you find being a business owner? How's it been for you?

Darren Lucchese
Oh, look, it's had its challenges, which everyone has, but I suppose a good thing from my point of view is because I've been with Peter for so long, I'd already was involved in a lot of decisions that the business made, like, you know, the property management software, CRMs, all that sort of stuff. I was involved with that anyway. So, it wasn't like a huge, big transition, I just, you know, just take on more responsibility. And there's obviously, you know, I'm wanting to take it to the next level and grow it. So that's been my sort of challenge as well. And it's just, you know, getting that fine line between working in the business. And working on the business, I suppose, the biggest challenge for me. And just getting all the right people and right staff in right positions. So, I can do that.

Darren Krakowiak
Yeah, there'll be people listening right now who perhaps have the opportunity to buy into the business where they work, maybe now maybe into the future. So, I'd love to hear from you any learnings or any reflections that you can share about the process of purchasing an established business? In particular, for your case, it's the one that you're working in, but any learnings that you can share about buying a commercial real estate business?

Darren Lucchese
Yeah, I suppose the only good thing is like, I haven't been getting, I knew all the financials, I knew what all the overheads were, so there were no surprises there. So just make sure you're across that. But yeah, I didn't have any surprises in that. It takes longer than you think as well, like because I did it just after COVID, I had to apply for the company license, the new company license. And part of that was a police check. So, all the police in Queensland were down on the border. And it took like three months to get, oh, it was close to four months for me to get the license. So, things do take, give yourself time, because you don't want to rush into it and then realize you haven't done your research. So, I did all that thoroughly. I spoke, I sought out, you know, external advice as well on certain things as well. So, I had my accountant, lawyer, I've got mates that own businesses, I ran everything for them as well. So just take the time, make sure you're across. There's no hidden, you know, overheads that you don't know about and you get across the financials and give yourself plenty of time. Because you don't want to have to rush in and do it. And you know, you want to be able to hit the ground running and make it as smooth as possible.

Darren Krakowiak
Peter put the business on the market or was it just the one buyer?

Darren Lucchese
No, you know, he just said, “Look, you're the logical choice”. So yeah, no, he didn't put on the market at all.

Darren Krakowiak
And this Peter we're talking about, of course, is Peter Tewksbury, whose name is on the door. And I want to talk to you a bit about branding in a moment. First of all, what sort of arrangement did you come to with Peter in terms of his continuing involvement in the business? Was it formal, informal? And what does that look like moving forward?

Darren Lucchese
Oh, look, Peter and I have had a great working relationship. We've worked together for, was it 17 or 18 years? We get on well, we've always been open, honest, never had a bad word spoken between us. So, he was always wanting to work, and stay on. So, it was obviously formalized in employment contracts and that as well. But yeah, it was a really smooth transition. So, you know, he still works here. He's actually off playing golf. Been off for a couple of days, but he likes coming into work. He still likes doing them. And he still really helps me out a lot and gives me some good advice on running the business. So, he wants me to succeed. And yes, it couldn't have been a smoother transition.

Darren Krakowiak
Excellent. Well, let's talk a bit more about some of the channels that you're investing in that aren't usually used by commercial real estate agencies to promote their business. So, I've got clients who are into social media in a big way, but you've gone down a different path with some of your recent marketing initiatives using, let's call it 'traditional media' in an unconventional way in this day and age. So, you're advertising on commercial radio in Brisbane. Before we talk about it, I just want to play the ad for our listeners so they can get a taste of what is popping up in the airwaves in Brisbane.

(Ad playing)
In commercial property, owners’ challenges are inevitable. That's why you need Tewksbury Commercial, Brisbane's leading commercial property managers by your side. We go beyond managing properties. We care about you, your property and your tenants at Tewksbury. At Tewksbury Commercial, it's more than just business, it's personal. Our experienced team is dedicated to making your investment thrive. Google Tewksbury, that's T E W K S B U R Y Commercial, and put the personal touch back into your property management today.

Darren Krakowiak
Excellent. So, there's a 15 second version of the ad as well. Tell me about, like, how did you come to this decision to advertise on commercial radio and how did you pick the station and the insights around that?

Darren Lucchese
So, it's funny, I was actually listening to another radio, it's more of a sports talkback one, and I started hearing ads for real commercial on it. And I thought, "Oh, that's interesting." And then we were just talking in the office, like, how can we reach? What's a good way to reach property owners? That's, you know, obviously we're doing all the cold calling and all that sort of stuff, which is good, but how's a good way to just constantly to reach them? And that's what we currently, so when I heard that ad and then Peter's like, "yeah, let's try that." Like no one's doing it. And we chose 4BC because it’s that demographic. It's, you know, talk back. It's the people that own properties in their age. And so, we thought, "Oh, well, let's give it a go." So, we contacted the station worked with them on the copy for the ads. So, we did about a 12 week and it was a bit eight weeks before Easter. Then we gave it a break and we've started back again. And it's been good luck. It's probably a bit hard at the moment to really quantify the success of it. But we've had a lot of existing clients say, "Oh, we've heard you write on the radio." So, that's a good thing, because we know we're getting to the right demographic. And then I've had probably two or three other people saying, "Oh, we've seen your signs. You've heard you're out on the radio." So, I think, it is working. And it's just about getting the brand name out there. So yeah. And I've actually had another radio station has to meet up, "That's a great idea. Do you want to come and advertise on us as well?" And, "we can do this and we can do that." So, I'll see whether I go down that path as well.

Darren Krakowiak
Okay, interesting. So, a couple of things for people who don't know, I guess, so in Brisbane is an AM station. That's a talk back station. That's probably targeted around the 50-year-old plus demographic. Would that be fair?

Darren Lucchese
Yeah, definitely.

Darren Krakowiak
All right. Awesome. Well, I'm really impressed that you went ahead and did that because it's different. And also, I should mention, for people outside Australia, real commercial is like an advertising platform for commercial real estate properties. It's not actually though a commercial real estate agency. So but even though they were advertising there, they were, I guess they're targeting agents, and they're targeting also people who are looking for commercial property, not an agency themselves.

Darren Lucchese
Yes. Yeah. I think now that it's more sort of geared towards people looking for commercial property, they're trying to drive inquiry on the website.

Darren Krakowiak
Okay. So, you've got legacy media covered, you're not avoiding digital advertising as well, right?

Darren Lucchese
No, we're just next week. We're starting a digital marketing campaign as well through an agency. So that'll kick off next week. So, there's some targeted advertising on all your social medias, plus we'll ramp up our generic posts and they'll help drive some content on that as well. So that's all kicking off. So, with the radio continuing and going and all the social media as well. Yeah, I'm hoping that'll give us some good results.

Darren Krakowiak
Awesome. I look forward to hearing the results of this two-pronged traditional new video campaign. Now branding is in the realm of marketing and I want to ask you about the name of the business because I guess there's obviously heritage in the brand, Tewksbury is well known in the local area, but at the same time, there's, I guess, an opportunity to put your stamp on the business and taking it forward and maybe I guess making it more saleable in the future by giving it a name, which isn't perhaps attached to one individual. So, where are you at with this?

Darren Lucchese
As you know, it's been a bit of a tough, you know, thing for me to get to try and get my head around a bit. Because actually before I bought the business, there's a guy working here, was doing the property management and John had, He'd from a resi background, and he'd owned his own, he'd owned his own residential agencies, and he'd help people buy them. And he said, "If I can give you one piece of advice," he said, "I've helped a lot of people buy residential agencies." And he said, "the first thing that a lot of them do is they go and change their name." And I said, he said, all the ones that do it straight away. He said, "pretty much all of them, within two years, they're out of business. I've said, I've seen it. He said, "I've seen it happen so many times.” He said, "cause you want it, you're buying that brand and you want to make sure you're in and established before you do it. And I said, "Okay." So there's been that and it's just been, I think about it and you run into someone, "Oh, you know, I've seen your signs for years and I've seen this and, you know, or a client you might've dealt with years ago and you haven't heard from them" you know, and then all of a sudden, "Oh yeah, you know, you sold us this property, you leased that years ago and, or they bought something else." And, you know, I just googled your name and got your number again. Everyone remembers the Tewksbury name because it's so different. And I just realized something. Yeah, are you going to, yeah, I'm just, I always struggle with that and I've been down the path of what am I going to change the name to and is it going to have any real benefit? So, I am still tossing up in my head what to do there.

Darren Krakowiak
Okay, I know we've talked about a couple of days, we'll have to go into that right now, but I think if the right one comes, you'll know.

Darren Lucchese
Yeah, that’s it.

Darren Krakowiak
But I do like that advice that your mate told you what I told you about not being too rash with that decision because there is heritage in the brand and like you say, it is a memorable name and also Peter's still there in the business. He's still associated with the business as well. So, it's not like he's off somewhere else doing something. So interesting. All right. I want to have a chat with you now just about working together. We've been, I guess working together over the past year. And I guess when you first became familiar with what I do, and by the way, it was because I prospected Peter and then he told me that you purchased the business. So prospecting works. When you found out about what I do and how I help clients. Well, what did you think?

Darren Lucchese
You know, when I part of the process of buying the business, you know a mate of mine, a years ago gave me some good advice. He said, “If I give you some advice, you need some people that you can go to help you with your business. It's always good. Don't be scared to ask for help”. And he said, "You know, you can have someone like your mates who have owned businesses or people that you know that have owned businesses that different businesses that can give you help.” Peter is still there. But he said, "You always also want to get someone that's worked in your industry that's got the experience, but it's got no ties, so they can just give it to you straight and give you the advice with no links to your business.” So, I was always took that on board. So that did appeal to me. I thought, “Oh, you know, here's someone that can do that for me.” So yeah, I always thought that was something that I wanted to do. And that was a good process to do.

Darren Krakowiak
Yep, it did take you a while to pull the trigger though. I think it was maybe a year later to get a word from you. "All right, mate, I'm ready to get started." So, I was delighted to get that call. And I think I probably maybe stayed in touch just a couple of times over the year, but not like it wasn't hammering you or anything. I guess I'm curious to know, because I think this is relevant for other people who are perhaps in a similar situation. They're thinking about it. Maybe they've got some hesitations or they're just not sure. So, what were the hesitations for you for getting started and why did you eventually decide to pull the trigger?

Darren Lucchese
Yeah, I wasn't so much of a hesitation. I just don't need just purchase it. So, I was like, I just wanted to get my feet under the desk and get on top of everything and then just say, "Where I needed to make changes and what I needed to do?" So, I just wanted to make sure I had all the information before I started the process. So that was the main reason why. And then when I've been in, I said, "All right, it's time to do this now." It's time to, you know, I know what I need to try and work on. So that was the main reason. You know, as getting the art, I wanted to make sure I was on top of that first before I was trying to change things or you know, go through this process with you.

Darren Krakowiak
Have you been like listening to the podcast in between when we met?

Darren Lucchese
Yeah.

Darren Krakowiak
So, you're still sort of in touch, but we weren't.

Darren Lucchese
Yes.

Darren Krakowiak
Alright. So, the podcast was doing its job, I guess. It's been one year exactly since you actually, I guess, we got started working together. So, it's a good period of time for you to, I guess, to assess everything. What's been your overall impression of the process that we've worked through?

Darren Lucchese
You know, look, I've really enjoyed it. It's been great. You know, we've had some good honest conversations. It's made me think about doing things differently. It's pushed me to do things, got me out of my comfort zone a bit to do things. Look deeper into the business. And I've really enjoyed. I highly recommend it to anyone. And yeah, that's why I'm continuing on with it because I think it's a great benefit and I've enjoyed it.

Darren Krakowiak
Thank you, mate. I appreciate that. Any maybe surprises? Something that you didn't expect that we did or something that wasn't what you were looking, wasn't what you were looking for, but then actually occurred that did happen?

Darren Lucchese
Oh look, I think the main thing was, okay, how much I enjoyed the process. That was one good thing. You know, you walk in and how much it's made me think about things. That's the big thing. You walk away and I, you know, we'd meet on a Friday and you spent the weekend thinking about. That's great. And there's also a lot of things as well, which I thought, but it's good to get the reassurance that yes, I'm on the right track. I'm doing it. I'm doing it right. So, they're the main two things. It's just, you know, and it's made me look at parts of the business a different way than I had previously.

Darren Krakowiak
Good. So, what would your advice to people who are thinking about investing in themselves and also spending a bit more time working on their business?

Darren Lucchese
Yeah, you know, you have to do it. I've always been of the opinion. No one knows everything. And it's always good to have a different opinion with it. You don't have to agree with it, but it's just always good to hear a different opinion and it makes you think about things differently. I think if you're not doing that, you're not going to go forward. You sort of do the same things. A lot of what you're doing might be right, but there's always could be the one or two things that you might need to change and that can make all the difference in the success of your business.

Darren Krakowiak
Excellent. Thanks for sharing that. Well, Darren, it's an honor to have a client with a great first name like yours, but also a fantastic guy. So, I really like working with you. I really appreciate the fact that you've taken the time to come on to the podcast today.

Darren Lucchese
Thanks for having me on.

Darren Krakowiak
Thank you, Darren. Appreciate it.

Darren Lucchese
All right. No worries. Thank you.