How valuing and recognising your team can fuel growth in your business

Do you truly value the people in your team?

Are you doing enough to recognise their contributions?

In the latest episode of Commercial Real Estate Leadership, I had the pleasure of chatting with Grant Beaumont, CEO of Beaumont Property.

Grant is a great example of how you can ensure your people feel recognised and valued, while being laser-focused on growth…

Just last week he announced the opening of the seventh commercial real estate agency location in Sydney under the Coutts and Norwest Commercial brands.

During our conversation, Grant opened up about the evolution of Beaumont Property’s annual awards night, and the steps they’ve taken to recognise excellence throughout the organisation.

These insights are invaluable for anyone looking to create a high-performing team while building a strong business culture.

Grant also reflected on his experience working with CRE Success, and why an external perspective can unlock new growth opportunities.

As Earl Beaumont, his father and founder of the business, told him: it’s lonely at the top.

And sometimes a fresh perspective from an outside voice is all you need to see the next step clearly.

If you want to learn how intentional leadership can fuel growth and build trust with your team, don’t miss episode 196 of Commercial Real Estate Leadership. 

 

Episode transcript:

Are you doing enough to recognize the people inside your business?

Are you doing enough to drive efficiency in your business?

On today's episode, I'm going to be speaking to the head of one of Sydney's biggest commercial real estate agency chains about how he does those two things inside his business. 

Hello and welcome to episode 196 of Commercial Real Estate Leadership. I'm your host, Darren Krakowiak.

I'm here to help you spend less time working, deliver more value to your clients and to get your business growing faster.

That's what we're all about. 

It's what I've been helping one of my fantastic clients, Grant Beaumont, who is the managing director of Beaumont Property and also the head of Coutts in Sydney and Norwest, Commercial Industrial. 

We've been working together for about 18 months. So, I thought it was time to invite Grant onto the show to learn a little bit more about his business and also his experience of working with me here at CRE success.

So, let's get right into it.

-----------------

Darren Krakowiak

Grant Beaumont, welcome to Commercial Real Estate Leadership. 

Grant Beaumont

Morning, Darren. It's pleasure to be here. Thanks very much for having me.

Darren Krakowiak

Thank you so much for making the time.

Grant, there's three main categories of things I want to talk to you about today.

I want to understand a bit about your background and the history of Beaumont Property.

I want to extract some insights for our audience around recognizing commercial real estate professionals, creating the right environment for your business and also how we can drive efficiency inside a commercial real estate agency business.

And also love to hear a bit about your impressions of working with CRE Success over the past 18 months.

Does that sound ok?

Grant Beaumont

That was great, Darren. 

Darren Krakowiak

Alright. So, let's go back to the beginning, not quite the beginning for you, but the beginning of Beaumont Property and in particular Beaumont Strata Management as it was first known in 1981.

I did do some sleuthing and found out that you probably were born by 1981 which was the year that your dad founded the group. 

And based on that, do you think it was always destined that you were going to work in property?

Grant Beaumont

Probably not. I mean, it does feel like I have been in improperly since I was very young.

And yes, I was born pre 1981.

Look, I guess the reality is when you are a child of an entrepreneur who has built a business up that starts on the living room floor, it's inevitable that you're involved in it.

And we certainly were as young Children accounting, you know, trust monies that used to come in with mom and dad that, you know, they were for the strata plans that they were looking at that time. 

My father actually started as an accountant.

And so, I think he had this aspiration that I would go into accounting as well.

And when I left school, I did actually do an accounting degree and then I moved into accounting with some of the big four or big six accounting firms as they were at that time.

So, I think his aspirations were for me not to actually go into property, but actually to go into accounting.

And when I did eventually come back into the business, he certainly ran a bet to see how long I would last.

And I’ve been here now about 18 years, so I think a little bit longer than the six months that they were predicting at the time.

Darren Krakowiak

Ok. So, you've been able to cash in on that bet.

Grant Beaumont

The bet was actually between my father and one of his contractors who knew me for quite some time.

They didn't think that I had the metal to be a real estate agent.

They thought I'd be back in accounting pretty quick smart.

Darren Krakowiak

Well, accounting, if you took you overseas, you spent some time in Japan, the UK.

Was the US as well?

Grant Beaumont

Oh, in Canada.

Darren Krakowiak

Yeah, Canada. Ok.

So, which of those places do you have the most fond memories of?

Grant Beaumont

Oh gosh! Each are different for different reasons. 

Japan was actually probably my favorite in terms of being particularly different to Australia.

And I didn't really know a whole lot about Japan before I went there. and I learned a lot had a great exposure to a lot of deals in particular in the real estate and non performing loan market.

And that sort of gave me a bit of a sense for entrepreneurialism and real estate.

And from moving from Tokyo then to London and continuing to work with real estate funds in particular.

I think that sort of really inspired my passion for real estate and meeting a lot of clients who were in the real estate space and they were making fair bit of money, they were doing things for themselves, really carving out their own destiny.

I think that really inspired me to say, “Hey, what do I want to do? Is it being a partner in an accounting firm, which was my original aspiration?”

I was like, “Well, no, not really.”

I actually want to do something for myself, which is what prompted move back to Australia.

But I guess to actually answer your question in relation to why Japan was interesting, it's just such a remarkable country in terms of its history and culture.

And for such an industrialized country that obviously has developed so rapidly after the Second World War, it still has some things that are very sort of antiquated.

And I remember things like, and this is going back quite a few years now, but ATM machines closing at nine o'clock, not being able to get cash out after nine.

A lot of sorts of manual processes and even how people worked in the offices with respect for your bosses, not leaving before your boss.

And that's that sort of thing, quite remarkable for a country that is so developed.

Darren Krakowiak

Yeah. As you know, I spent a number of years in Korea and some of the stories that we've traded, obviously, Japan and Korea are different, but there are some similarities as well.

But I thought you were going to say Japan, but I was planning that question. So, I'm not surprised.

So, you came back to Australia in the mid 2000.

And by then Beaumont property had Northwest Commercial Industrial, Waratah Strata Management was also in the fold by then? And of course, there was Beaumont Strata Management, is that right?

Grant Beaumont

We only started using Beaumont property as a sort of overarching brand in the last couple of years because otherwise up to that time, we were pretty disparate businesses.

And the two main businesses at that time were Beaumont Strata and Northwest Commercial.

And we did actually operate a number other smaller real estate agencies under different names.

And it was around probably around 2000 that we decided to amalgamate the commercial real estate businesses under the name of Coutts with the exception of our Norwest Commercial office.

So, we ran more or less the three brands, Beaumont Strata, Northwestern Coutts for quite a number of years until we acquired the Waratah Strata business about two years ago.

Darren Krakowiak

2 years ago, I had some incorrect information. Pardon me. 

So, Coutts was a brand that you acquired and there was a lot of heritage in that brand, was that a big decision to not use your own brand and stick with that brand? 

Grant Beaumont

It probably reflects. Probably our family's sort of attitude of not wanting to big note ourselves.

And I think that's where my father, Earl started in the first place.

And although he called our Strata business, Beaumont Strata, he didn't really want big note himself with his own name on the front door.

And Norwest Commercial was his probably the first business or real estate business that he established.

And it was very much established in the Northwest of Sydney.

And we were looking for a brand that had been well established and Coutts had been established in Castle Hill since the late 50’s, early 60’s.

And so, there was a lot of heritage around that.

And so, I guess, there wasn't a lot of magic in why we chose Coutts apart from the fact that we wanted the consistency across all of our non-Northwest offices.

Darren Krakowiak

Ok. So now you find yourself as the managing director of Beaumont Property, which has been around for a couple of years as you've just let me know.

Tell me what does a typical day look like? How do you balance your time between these three entities?

Grant Beaumont

Sometimes with some difficulty. But I think one of the things that we talked about early in our sessions was what is important or what would I need to be spending my time.

And in particular, the one-on-one meetings that I have with my direct reports, it dictates a lot of the structure of my days basically.

And I've become more and more ruthless, I suppose, with what is the actual work that I need to be doing as opposed to what might come into my inbox?

And I have an outstanding PA that goes through my inbox to make sure that anything that I don't really need to deal with is actually handled by those that that could.

And so therefore my time is spent looking more at the strategic elements of what we're trying to achieve.

And I guess that would be in a perfect world.

But I mean, the reality is there's fires that need to be put out at various times.

Things don't always go exactly to plan, telephone calls come out of the blue that need to be dealt with as well.

But I do try and be pretty structured now with a young child at home as well.

I've got to make sure that I'm leaving home at a particular time and getting home for bath time as well.

So, the days have to be kind of planned well.

Very often with meetings, but making sure the meetings are effective. So, meetings with an agenda, minutes outcomes.

Darren Krakowiak

I know firsthand that your EA very much guards your time because there's been a couple of times that I've been trying to reach you and I've got to go through her, which is exactly the right thing. 

An expression that I was reminded of from you is that the squeakiest wheel often gets the most attention.

I think that's what you've used a few times.

So, I love what you've just said in terms of making sure that we're more intentional about how we're spending our time. 

The fact that you're utilizing the one-on-one meetings, which a lot of my clients, some of them are resistant, but you've really taken to that. 

So, I'm really pleased that it's working for you.

Is there a preference in terms of what are the businesses that perhaps you're more attracted to or is there one that maybe requires a bit more of your time based on what's going on in the businesses right now?

Grant Beaumont

Oh, look, it varies. It sort of depends on what's going on.

And we we're pretty ambitious in terms of our growth objectives and we have managed to build up our Strata business in particular, very rapidly over the last couple of years, starting off with the acquisition of the Waratah business.

And naturally when you do acquire businesses, it probably deserves and requires a bit more time and effort to ensure that integration and transition is going well.

We're trying to be fairly specific and structured in a way that we do grow both the Strata business as well as the commercial real estate business. 

And therefore, I am spending a reasonable amount of time trying to work on the commercial real estate side and particularly its growth aspirations as well.

Probably, it sort of varies in terms of the type of work.

I mean, on the Strata side, it's probably more looking at the business in its entirety and its processes, procedures and so on.

Whereas on the sales and leasing side, property management side, it tends to be a little bit more focused on the individuals and their own performances and where they're spending their time and how they're generating the commissions that they seek to achieve.

Darren Krakowiak

Right. Let's talk about recognizing people because I know that's something that's important to you.

You hold a very significant event every year where you reward and recognize the employees of what is now a Beaumont property.

Can you tell me a little bit about how this event came to be and how it goes every year?

Grant Beaumont

Yeah, look, it's probably an interesting story.

It was actually my late brother who used to work with us before he passed away and it was his idea to establish award. 

And at that time, and we're probably talking about 10 years ago now, our end of year events were relatively modest.

And the awards were a little bit of fun.

But as the years have gone by, the team has actually effectively given us the feedback directly or indirectly that they take these awards seriously.

And so therefore, it's kind of incumbent on us as the managers or owners of the business to recognize the fact that they do want to be recognized.

And I think that is important as a general concept in any case and try and work on the basis that an individual forget that they feel valued if they're not told or reminded that their work is valued, if you're not telling them at least every 30 days.

Obviously, we can't have a big party every 30 days.

But the big party at the end of the year recognizes our overall performance. 

And what I was really trying to do there is make an event that people really look forward to and an event that they probably wouldn't get working for a smaller company.

Now, we're not the biggest company in the world, but we do try and put on an event that people think, “Wow, I don't have to go to the city and work for a big organization and still get a big night out where everyone likes to dress up.”

We have some really nice entertainment.

We've done boat trips. We've done hotels in the city which is tends to be our venues of late. 

And really make it a big event that people think, “Oh, wow, this is pretty impressive for a smaller organization.”

Darren Krakowiak

And I understand you've made some important enhancements to the judging process to ensure its independence.

Can you tell us a bit about that?

Grant Beaumont

Yeah. Look, we got some feedback from the staff that there was a feeling that sometimes it was perhaps, maybe it's the squeakiest wheel or those that are closer to say the center of management that were being more rewarded than others.

I had to sort of pull back and say, “Oh, that's not right.”

We try and be so independent. We try have a meeting amongst the managers and each advocate for who should win awards and so on.

And I was very conscious always that inherent bias can creep into the judging process.

And I guess in the absence of information or understanding of what the process is, people just assume, “Oh, well, maybe it's somebody's preferred. Employee who they're closer to their friend or whatnot.”

And so, what we decided to do over the last year is actually we have a judging panel which is represented by different people from different offices.

And we also added an independent person to manage the credibility of the process.

And he would say things in the meetings that we had is just because that person won last year.

If they deserve it this year, maybe they should get it again. 

Whereas perhaps in prior years, we would have been like, “Oh, that person won it last year.

Let's give it to somebody else.” 

So, it was just an opportunity there to add to the credibility.

And we documented our process, which is then available for all of the staff so that they can see that we're trying to be as transparent as possible in our judging process.

Darren Krakowiak

One of the things that you mentioned there reminded me back in my JLL and CBRE days where we would get a lot of complaints from the non-agency team members that there was so much recognition and pumping up the tires of the agency team members that we need to do more to recognize our non-agency team members.

So, is that something that you've also been aware of and making sure that you address?

Grant Beaumont

Yeah, look. I think interestingly we might have actually had the opposite. And I'll give you an example.

We used to have an offer for salesperson of the year and we didn't necessarily have one for an agent or agent group that actually received or earned the greatest commission.

And I think this is something you and I had a good chat about is the fact that sales agents are substantially remunerated on the commission that they bring in.

But there should also be a recognition that if you are running a high-performance sales culture that recognizing those who are actually performing at that higher level, which is mostly or substantially the GCI that they earn should be recognized as well.

So, each year it does seem like we've added an extra award, an extra award, an extra reward.

And so, we do have quite a lot of awards that we try and recognize both the admin staff, strata staff, property management, sales and leasing collectively.

So, I think we've got a pretty good balance and it's almost getting out of hand because there's so many awards.

But we've got about 115 staff in Australia at the moment and so you can't necessarily recognize everybody.

But I think we do have a good cross section of awards so that everyone feels that they qualify for at least one award, if not, you know, several.

Darren Krakowiak

Yeah, I love that.

Let's talk a bit more about the commercial agency business.

I just want to make sure I get all of the offices within Coutts. There is Norwest, Chatswood, Black Town, Wetherill Park and Penrith.

And then there is the existing or the Heritage Northwest commercial industrial business.

And one thing that we've been talking about recently is how Sydney and people outside of Sydney probably don't fully appreciate how there are all these different parts of Sydney that are quite distinct.

And even in Melbourne, it's not quite like that.

You know, the North Shore is different to the South West, which is different to the North West, which is different to the outer West.

And one thing that you've mentioned is that you want to make sure that all of the offices really reflect the different areas that they're situated in.

Can you tell me why that's important in some ways that you've got about achieving that?

Grant Beaumont

Absolutely. I go back to when we first branded or we made the Coutts brand the consistent one for all the officers.

At that point, I probably had an idea that the culture could or should be pretty homogeneous between each of the offices.

And I pretty quickly found out that it just wasn't working because as you point out the demographics, typically of some of the regions in Sydney are quite different from one to the other.

And what I found then that it was natural that the people that I was employing it at one particular office typically did reflect their own markets. 

And therefore, trying to make them into a different demographic than they were naturally is it was foolish and it wasn't really working.

And so, what we found is that each of the officers start to develop its own culture in and around the leadership of their general manager.

And typically, the general manager reflects their own values, which obviously had to be consistent with ours as a broader group.

And I think that's the main objective there is to allow the general managers to manufacture or work on the culture within an office and really drive that as long as it is within the auspices and overall feeling of what we're trying to achieve at Beaumont Property.

Darren Krakowiak

Yeah, I love the fact that you've referenced the consistency and values, right?

We've all got a consistent value that anchor the way that we go about things.

But then there are some differences in culture that exist across the business just based on the fact that we're reflecting where those businesses are and how business operates in those areas.

One of the things I wanted to ask you about was driving efficiency.

And one thing that some of my clients are attracted to it and some of them are very resistant to it.

And that's the idea of working with our virtual assistants.

And you were in the Philippines earlier this year, visiting some of your remote employees.

Last check, 19 virtual assistants inside the business, 15 in strata, 4 in property management.

Something you've been working on, I believe for a couple of years, but it's really ramped up over the past year.

I want to focus on the virtual assistance that you've got in property management because I think that could be helpful for our audience just to understand. 

What sort of tasks virtual assistants working on within your property management business.

Grant Beaumont

I guess by way of background, we started on the strata side and particularly we dipped our toe into the idea of offshoring with some of the administrative tasks, mainly like filing and those kinds of jobs which are pretty laborious. 

And a lot of our Australian workers simply, you know, either wouldn't get to deprioritize or just wouldn't do it at all.

And so that's how we sort of ramped up on the strata side and the property management side, it's just a fairly recent change where we've started using the offshore people for property management roles as well.

My objective and perspective on the use of offshore people is generally for the non-client facing roles.

And my objective is not just to save money.

And that's obviously the elephant in the room or the dirty little secret that people don't necessarily want to talk about.

And there's definitely a cost saving there.

But really what I'm trying to do is focus the time of my onshore staff on the clients, building that trust relationship with the clients, having those good conversations with them to manage their property and actually add value.

Because in time, computers will be doing a lot of the administrative tasks themselves.

In the meantime, if you've got offshore staff that can be doing some of those admin tasks.

And I think it's basically paperwork.

So, what is the paperwork roles for a property manager? 

Well, it can be the rent reviews, the outgoings reconciliations, doing up new leases.

And there's some of the things that we have started to get the offshore people working on.

And the way we've approached it is to start with one task, get them familiar with that and then move on to the next and the next and the next. 

So, Darren, it is still early days and the offshore staff are not necessarily well trained or experienced in commercial real estate in Australia. 

Certainly not in the same way that the market is developed in the strata market.

And so that's why our approach anyway is to start them off with one of the tasks, get them familiar with that and then move on to the next.

And I suppose that's the important thing with offshoring is that they are members of the team. 

So, in the same way that you might have a property management assistant in your group, it's just having a person offshore doing the same work.

And it's important then from that perspective, in terms of training is to ensure that the same training you'd give an onshore person, you'd be giving the offshore person.

And yes, they're not sitting next to you, but they're still available on teams or zoom or whatnot.

You still have all the same meetings and the same way you've got a new person; you wouldn't necessarily put them in front of a client.

The same way you wouldn't do that with an offshore person.

Darren Krakowiak

I like that framing.

I've often thought about it as a way to elevate people's roles in terms of the people in Australia.

It's a similar thing but a different focus or emphasis on client facing.

And I also like the idea of we give them one thing to do and then once that we can stack on and stack on and stack on and just keep on building their capability.

Any particular challenges that perhaps you've had to overcome in the early days of working with a remote workforce.

Grant Beaumont

Look, the interesting thing is the challenges are not necessarily with the offshore people.

I mean, you do have some. I mean, they're not without challenge.

Sometimes the language difficulty can be a challenge.

There are some cultural issues as well in terms of, you know, absolutely wanting to impress and sometimes they're very task oriented so they want to get through tick things off.

But from our perspective, we want to be more focused on quality. 

And so that that can be a little bit of a cultural difference that you might need to overcome. 

And I guess one of the challenges if anything I found actually on the Australian side.

And so, it's ensuring that your own team embraces the process and understands it's not a case of their jobs being at risk, but exactly what you said a second ago, it's about elevating their positions here so that they can actually add value.

So yes, we are doing it to save some money. 

But what we're actually doing is using it as an opportunity to be able to give them more time to provide a better customer service to our clients.

Darren Krakowiak

Well, Grant, I want to switch gears now and talk about your experience of working with CRE success. 

And when we first started working together, it was off the back of an inquiry which your assistant, who you mentioned before put on our website. 

Do you remember what inspired you to make contact with us in the first place? 

Grant Beaumont

It was funny even this morning, I saw on LinkedIn a quote from Richard Branson saying that his number one tip for an entrepreneur is to get a good mentor. 

And it sort of reminds me of when I came back to the business.

And my father said to me, “It's lonely at the top.”

And what I was looking for in terms of someone who was kind of on the same page as me, someone who was involved in commercial real estate in one way or another. 

Because there are lots of other coaches out there, but not necessarily, once you've got a deep understanding of the actual commercial real estate market itself, I was attracted to the fact that you'd worked at some of the bigger organizations.

And I suppose in terms of what we're trying to do in improve our business, I'm not comparing ourselves to other smaller real estate agents.

I'm comparing ourselves and wanting to emulate the ones who are best of breed basically. 

And that was something that I thought that you had an interesting perspective from your own experience.

Obviously, the fact that you had an impressive client list, which suggested to me that you had a good overview generally of the commercial real estate market and perhaps other people who were sitting more or less in my spot.

That was another thing that attracted me to you and your business in particular.

And I think being external as well, I think was one of the things that I liked.

I mean, I have a lot of staff, a lot of very, very good staff and to be able to have someone who's on the outside who can give some advice.

And there's been some really good nuggets of wisdom there over the last while as well. You know, it's been great. 

But I know that that's not necessarily tinged with, I mean, you're not a yes man, you're not just agreeing with me, you're actually challenging me on certain things. And that's been great.

And I think that was the kind of external perspective I was looking for, for someone to actually guide me because as much as I think I've got some good experience and I've learned a lot.

In my last 18 years of working, I do know the number one thing is you've got to keep improving and that goes for me as well. 

Just because I'm the CEO of this group doesn't mean I know it all and I have the best expertise, experience and oversight. 

And I was wanting to tap into that external perspective.

Darren Krakowiak

Were there any hesitations that you had at the time in terms of working with a business coach?

Grant Beaumont

Probably not. To be honest, Darren, I have worked and our business has worked with other coaches and consultants.

And I suppose even if I think back, way back when I was a tax adviser, I would be working with other very accomplished tax people, investment bankers and so on. 

But they still go external for additional advice and I think, as I said before, there's always that opportunity to learn something else.

And I think, I do recall on at least one of our sessions, there was a nugget of gold there.

I was like, “Ok, that's fantastic.”

And I think that sometimes it's something you haven't thought of or you haven't thought in a particular way about whatever the situation is. 

And that just small nugget is worth the fees that you always have to pay.

Darren Krakowiak

Was there anything that maybe you weren't expecting that came up as a result of the work that we've done together? 

Grant Beaumont

I don't think so. 

And I think, we have morphed the sessions a little bit to what I was looking for as well. 

And I think I've enjoyed that flexibility. 

So, I think we started off in a fairly structured way but then we were able to tailor the sessions to what I was actually looking for and I think in particular that accountability side.

You know, you said, “You were going to do X, have you actually done it?”

And then to follow up and say, “Well, you haven't done it. So, why haven't you done it or why?”

I haven't done it because I haven't found the right person or whatever the circumstances might be, but it's good to have that person to challenge.

Darren Krakowiak

Yeah, I'm pleased to hear that. It's organically wharf into more of what you're looking for, which is great. 

It's been 18 months now, since we started working together. If I was going to ask you to give me one word to describe the process of what it's like to work with CRE success, what word first comes to mind?

Grant Beaumont

I think I'm happy with the first choice of engaging.

Darren Krakowiak

Engaging. Ok. Awesome.

Grant Beaumont

So, it's been good. And what I mean by that is you have sought to understand our business and some of the personalities in the business and it's not me talking for most of it although I feel like sometimes, I do.

But actually, it's like, “Oh, you know, John? You had that issue with John? Have you actually dealt with that?

And then given some additional perspective. So, it's almost like an investment in that situation, John's performance.

Darren Krakowiak

Yeah. Ok. Got it. Last question for you.

Got any advice for commercial real estate principal or business owners who might be thinking about investing in themselves and working with someone like me, but perhaps aren't sure about it.

What advice would you give to that person? 

Grant Beaumont

I'd say, just give it a go.

I think there sometimes does need to be a mature conversation as to whether it's continuing to work.

But I suppose if you're not connecting well with the person, you don't need to keep, you know, sort of flogging the dead horse.

And if it's not working for you, it's probably not working for the trainer as well the mentor.

And I guess the thing is nothing ventured, nothing gained.

And I think people are probably hesitant to make the financial investment.

But I think the thing is, particularly when you're a principal of a commercial real estate agency, it's very easy to get sort of bogged down in your day to day, what's going on and you do need to put your head above the parapet and have a bit of a look around.

And I think that's the benefit of working with a coach. Whether it's you or anybody else is to actually help you as a leader, to be a better leader by getting your head out of the sand and taking a better perspective of things.

Darren Krakowiak

I'm smiling because I'm thinking of a little meerkat popping up, having a look around back down.

That was what in my mind as you gave me that answer.

Grant Beaumont

And look, sometimes running a business is exactly like that.

You've got so much that's going on a day-to-day basis and you have this idea or you go on holiday and you come back with all these ideas, but sometimes you just need to stop and make it happen.

And I guess even if it's just the discipline of turning up to the session that they've scheduled with you, that's a good discipline to start off with.

Darren Krakowiak

Yes, and ours are at eight o'clock.

So, they require some discipline which is good.

Grant, it's a real pleasure to work with you.

I've enjoyed seeing what's been going on inside your business and I can't wait to see where it goes next.

I also really appreciate you taking the time to come onto the podcast and to share some of your insights and experience and impressions of working with us with our audience.

So, thank you so much for being on Commercial Real Estate Leadership today.

Grant Beaumont

No worries, Darran. Thanks very much. It's always a pleasure.